[I] Biology and Anatomy & Physiology books banned in USA

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America. I cannot really think why
this might be. I have Googled every term I can think of, and the
only references to the reasons for banning some biology/A&P books
are those referring to evolution[2] (although the evolution
references were out of date) and objections of an illustration of
a vagina[3]. I would like to find out the real reason, but only
if it was interesting, it would be terribly disappointing to
find there was a mundane explanation.

kt.

[1] Loading Image...
[2] http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html
[3] http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=3628

[Alister]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America.
[1] http://kylet.co.uk/kylet/noUSA.jpg

How ridiculous!

In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic, Nursing and
Medical training.

If the US carry on like this there won't be *any* competent
science/medicine training in the country!

Alastair.

[Julia Jones]

Post by Alister

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America.
[1] http://kylet.co.uk/kylet/noUSA.jpg

How ridiculous!
In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic, Nursing and
Medical training.
If the US carry on like this there won't be *any* competent
science/medicine training in the country!

That appears to be the general intention, yes. There are significant
chunks of the US electorate who see that as a desirable situation.

[Steve Rogers]

Post by Julia Jones

Post by Alister

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology
books - and this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology
book by Tortora Derrickson - are "banned" from
America.
[1] http://kylet.co.uk/kylet/noUSA.jpg

How ridiculous!
In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic,
Nursing and Medical training.
If the US carry on like this there won't be *any*
competent science/medicine training in the country!

That appears to be the general intention, yes. There are
significant chunks of the US electorate who see that as a
desirable situation.

Unfortunately so, if they had their way the US would end up like one of
Heinlein's religious states or worse if thats possible.

What tickles me is to see "Wheres Waldo" in the top 100 list of most
frequently challenged books.

Steve

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Post by Alister

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America.
[1] http://kylet.co.uk/kylet/noUSA.jpg

In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic, Nursing and
Medical training.

I know, that's why I have it.

Post by Alister
If the US carry on like this there won't be *any* competent
science/medicine training in the country!

Well doesn't really matter, as no-one can afford to pay them
anyway.>

kt.

[LynneM]

Post by Alister
How ridiculous!
In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic, Nursing and
Medical training.

In my search for really good A&P books, I've found the best one to be the
Bodyworlds book. Of course, that's probably banned everywhere now.

Post by Alister
If the US carry on like this there won't be *any* competent
science/medicine training in the country!

Nothing new there then. You just look at the maternity services over there
to see what the whole system's about.

LynneM

[Steve Rogers]

Post by LynneM

Post by Alister
How ridiculous!
In UK this is one of the standard texts for Paramedic,
Nursing and Medical training.

In my search for really good A&P books, I've found the
best one to be the Bodyworlds book. Of course, that's
probably banned everywhere now.

Post by Alister
If the US carry on like this there won't be *any*
competent science/medicine training in the country!

Nothing new there then. You just look at the maternity
services over there to see what the whole system's about.

Funny old thing, whilst my wife is American she is having the baby here in
the UK and so is experiencing how our system works, whilst her friend who is
pregnant back in Oklahoma is under the care of the system there. They've
been comparing experiences and so far her friend prefers the sound of how
things are over here and this from a resident of a city that boasts that it
has one of the best health care provisions in the US (using Brits to say it
as well in their promo vid)

Steve

[Tiny Bulcher]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America. I cannot really think why
this might be. I have Googled every term I can think of, and the
only references to the reasons for banning some biology/A&P books
are those referring to evolution[2] (although the evolution
references were out of date) and objections of an illustration of
a vagina[3]. I would like to find out the real reason, but only
if it was interesting, it would be terribly disappointing to
find there was a mundane explanation.

How do you mean 'banned'? Federally? Locally? Banned from import or
publication or sale or what? And who by? Enquiring minds and all that.

Tiny

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Post by Tiny Bulcher

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America. I cannot really think why
this might be. I have Googled every term I can think of, and the
only references to the reasons for banning some biology/A&P books
are those referring to evolution[2] (although the evolution
references were out of date) and objections of an illustration of
a vagina[3]. I would like to find out the real reason, but only
if it was interesting, it would be terribly disappointing to
find there was a mundane explanation.

How do you mean 'banned'? Federally? Locally? Banned from import or
publication or sale or what? And who by? Enquiring minds and all that.

Hey, no fair, that was *my* question.

[Michael J. Schülke]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America.

What makes you think that the book was banned? It's still readily
available from Amazon.com[2].

Looking at your photograph, it looks more like Wiley doesn't want that
particular *edition* to be sold in the U.S. -- probably because it's
less expensive. I used to have a Physics textbook[3], also published by
Wiley, which was available as a cheaper, soft-cover "international
edition" in Europe, while Americans had to buy the full-price hardcover
edition, so it looks like Wiley does that every now and then.

Michael



[1] NMF
[2] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0471689343/qid=
1128286423/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-7225812-6796113?v=glance&s=books&n=
507846
[3] Halliday, Resnick, Walker. Fundamentals of Physics. 4th ed. Wiley,
1993 (?)

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America.

What makes you think that the book was banned? It's still readily
available from Amazon.com[2].

The text on the front. What's restricted about it? Bit rude, is
it?

Post by Michael J. Schülke
Looking at your photograph, it looks more like Wiley doesn't want that
particular *edition* to be sold in the U.S. -- probably because it's
less expensive.

That could be right, it's US$100 in the interweb, and about
GBP30 here (in Borders)

but it wasn't just this book, and it's not just o'reilly. I had
not ever seen this notice before, but where I was browsing it
was prevalent on the Biology and A&P books. Of course, that was
the section I was mostly looking in, so my research is biased.y

kt.

[Michael J. Schülke]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson

Post by Michael J. Schülke
What makes you think that the book was banned? It's still readily
available from Amazon.com[2].

The text on the front.

"Wiley International Edition. Restricted -- Not for sale in the United
States"

AIUI, that clearly refers to the edition. Moreover it doesn't say that
the book was banned (i.e., that the restriction was made my some
governmental agency); that was purely your interpretation.

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
What's restricted about it?

The distribution of the "International Edition".

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Bit rude, is it?

About as rude as, say, region coding on DVDs or the fact that many U.S.
mail order companies appear to have contracts with their suppliers that
forbid the to ship consumer electronics outside North America. Welcome
to "free trade".

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
That could be right, it's US$100 in the interweb, and about
GBP30 here (in Borders)

And the U.S. list price is $142.95...

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
but it wasn't just this book, and it's not just o'reilly.

ITIYM Wiley? AFAIK, O'Reilly doesn't do anything of that sort.

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
I had
not ever seen this notice before, but where I was browsing it
was prevalent on the Biology and A&P books. Of course, that was
the section I was mostly looking in, so my research is biased.

As I said in my previous post, I had the same with a Physics book ten
years ago. If they're still doing it, it's probably common practice.

Michael

[Pudde Fjord]

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson

Post by Michael J. Schülke
What makes you think that the book was banned? It's still readily
available from Amazon.com[2].

The text on the front.

"Wiley International Edition. Restricted -- Not for sale in the United
States"

It may also have to do with different publishers in the UK and US.

Happens all the time with novels, I figure textbooks are similar.

Pudde.

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson

Post by Michael J. Schülke
What makes you think that the book was banned? It's still readily
available from Amazon.com[2].

The text on the front.

"Wiley International Edition. Restricted -- Not for sale in the United
States"
AIUI, that clearly refers to the edition. Moreover it doesn't say that
the book was banned (i.e., that the restriction was made my some
governmental agency); that was purely your interpretation.

That is my interpretation of restricted, you are right. However
in the OP it did state the book was "banned" (amongst others)
becuase I could not think of any sensible explaination for the
notice.

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
What's restricted about it?

The distribution of the "International Edition".

So the International Edition is only avaliable for some
countries? Novel use of "International"

Post by Michael J. Schülke
Welcome to "free trade".

Perhaps it was my naivety on this from that led me to the
"banned" explaination.

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
That could be right, it's US$100 in the interweb, and about
GBP30 here (in Borders)

And the U.S. list price is $142.95...

Perhaps someone needs to set up a website selling cheap books...

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
but it wasn't just this book, and it's not just o'reilly.

ITIYM Wiley? AFAIK, O'Reilly doesn't do anything of that sort.

I did mean wiley, it was getting late and I had read too much
about interprofessional working and it messed with my mind.

Post by Michael J. Schülke
As I said in my previous post, I had the same with a Physics book ten
years ago. If they're still doing it, it's probably common practice.

Just not something I have come across before.

For all that I did find references of banned "graphic" biology
books, so that added credence to my first impression.

kt.

[Michel]

On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:30:16 +0100, X Kyle M Thompson

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
So the International Edition is only avaliable for some
countries? Novel use of "International"

Not really. According to my dictionary, international means:
1 : of, relating to, or affecting two or more nations <international
trade>
2 : of, relating to, or constituting a group or association having
members in two or more nations <international movement>
3 : active, known, or reaching beyond national boundaries <an
international reputation>

So it's an international edition if it's for several countries. It
doesn't say anywhere it has to be *all* of them.

[j***@arcade.demon.co.uk]

Post by Michel
Watashi wa neko desu nyo.

myou, nekochan ;)

[Graycat]

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:02:36 -0700, Michel

Post by Michel
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:30:16 +0100, X Kyle M Thompson

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
So the International Edition is only avaliable for some
countries? Novel use of "International"

1 : of, relating to, or affecting two or more nations <international
trade>
2 : of, relating to, or constituting a group or association having
members in two or more nations <international movement>
3 : active, known, or reaching beyond national boundaries <an
international reputation>
So it's an international edition if it's for several countries. It
doesn't say anywhere it has to be *all* of them.

May well be there's a US edition for sale in the US and an
international edition for sale everywhere else.

[peachy ashie passion]

Post by Graycat
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:02:36 -0700, Michel

Post by Michel
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:30:16 +0100, X Kyle M Thompson

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
So the International Edition is only avaliable for some
countries? Novel use of "International"

1 : of, relating to, or affecting two or more nations <international
trade>
2 : of, relating to, or constituting a group or association having
members in two or more nations <international movement>
3 : active, known, or reaching beyond national boundaries <an
international reputation>
So it's an international edition if it's for several countries. It
doesn't say anywhere it has to be *all* of them.

May well be there's a US edition for sale in the US and an
international edition for sale everywhere else.

Frequently happens. I have more than one text of the
"international" version because I bought it on Amazon rather than at
my University bookstore.

[David Jensen]

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:42:57 GMT, in alt.fan.pratchett

Post by peachy ashie passion

Post by Graycat
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 03:02:36 -0700, Michel

Post by Michel
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 08:30:16 +0100, X Kyle M Thompson

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
So the International Edition is only avaliable for some
countries? Novel use of "International"

1 : of, relating to, or affecting two or more nations <international
trade>
2 : of, relating to, or constituting a group or association having
members in two or more nations <international movement>
3 : active, known, or reaching beyond national boundaries <an
international reputation>
So it's an international edition if it's for several countries. It
doesn't say anywhere it has to be *all* of them.

May well be there's a US edition for sale in the US and an
international edition for sale everywhere else.

Frequently happens. I have more than one text of the
"international" version because I bought it on Amazon rather than at
my University bookstore.

Yes, American publishers have been known to be like International Pharma
companies, making no meaningful changes but charging far more for the US
version.

Hollywood thinks that way as well. It divides the world into US and
international, though US means the United States and Canada for them.

[Stig M. Valstad]

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Bit rude, is it?

About as rude as, say, region coding on DVDs or the fact that many U.S.
mail order companies appear to have contracts with their suppliers that
forbid the to ship consumer electronics outside North America. Welcome
to "free trade".

Funny isn't it how trade restrictions are OK as long
as they are for big business screwing over consumers
like with region encoding and domestic/international
editions of books, but if the trade restrictions are
for human health (like banning antibiotics in animal
feed just because lots of antibiotic resistant germs
appeared around farms where antibiotics were used in
feed) they are the baddest of the bad.

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
I had
not ever seen this notice before, but where I was browsing it
was prevalent on the Biology and A&P books. Of course, that was
the section I was mostly looking in, so my research is biased.

As I said in my previous post, I had the same with a Physics book ten
years ago. If they're still doing it, it's probably common practice.

I've got two books with similar restrictions printed
on the back, Modern Operating Systems by Tannenbaum,
published on Prentice Hall, and Discrete Mathematics
by Rosen, published by McGraw-Hill. It seems to be
only books used in higher education.

[Phil Davison]

Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and this[1]
well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora Derrickson - are "banned"
from America. I cannot really think why this might be.

It could be for copyright reasons and just *that* particular edition
isn't/wasn't available in the US. BTW, aren't the authors American?

[X Kyle M Thompson]

Post by Phil Davison

Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and this[1]
well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora Derrickson - are "banned"
from America. I cannot really think why this might be.

It could be for copyright reasons and just *that* particular edition
isn't/wasn't available in the US. BTW, aren't the authors American?

It looks like it is just a money making scheme after all, nothing
sinister - very dissapointing.

They are American, which seemed odd. But then Chumbawumba a
British and are published in Germany.

kt.

[Alec Cawley]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson

Post by Phil Davison

Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and this[1]
well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora Derrickson - are "banned"
from America. I cannot really think why this might be.

It could be for copyright reasons and just *that* particular edition
isn't/wasn't available in the US. BTW, aren't the authors American?

It looks like it is just a money making scheme after all, nothing
sinister - very dissapointing.

Not even really a money making scheme. Just that one publisher has
published in the US, and decided not to bother marketing to the rest of
the world (perhaps because they don't have the contacts), so they have
sold the rights for the ROW to another publisher. But they don't want to
the other publisher stealing their market, so they demand that the
second publisher not distribute their edition in the US.

The prices can then be decided separately by the two publishers, and may
or may not coincide. It is not worse than the same airline seat selling
for different prices through different channels.

[Phil Davison]

Post by Alec Cawley

Post by X Kyle M Thompson

Post by Phil Davison

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora Derrickson -
are "banned" from America. I cannot really think why this might be.

It could be for copyright reasons and just *that* particular edition
isn't/wasn't available in the US. BTW, aren't the authors American?

It looks like it is just a money making scheme after all, nothing
sinister - very dissapointing.

Not even really a money making scheme. Just that one publisher has
published in the US, and decided not to bother marketing to the rest of
the world (perhaps because they don't have the contacts), so they have
sold the rights for the ROW to another publisher. But they don't want to
the other publisher stealing their market, so they demand that the second
publisher not distribute their edition in the US.
The prices can then be decided separately by the two publishers, and may
or may not coincide. It is not worse than the same airline seat selling
for different prices through different channels.

But in this case both publishers are the same. I just had a quick
look. They obviously just don't want the "International Edititon" sold in
the US for some reason. Lesley Weston has explained this elsewhere in the
thread, which is actually *why* I went and had a quick look.

[Lesley Weston]

Post by X Kyle M Thompson
Looking at book over the weekend, oddly many biology books - and
this[1] well-know anatomy and physiology book by Tortora
Derrickson - are "banned" from America. I cannot really think why
this might be. I have Googled every term I can think of, and the
only references to the reasons for banning some biology/A&P books
are those referring to evolution[2] (although the evolution
references were out of date) and objections of an illustration of
a vagina[3]. I would like to find out the real reason, but only
if it was interesting, it would be terribly disappointing to
find there was a mundane explanation.
kt.
[1] http://kylet.co.uk/kylet/noUSA.jpg
[2] http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/banned-books.html
[3] http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=3628

I'm afraid there is a mundane explanation - don't read on if you want to
keep your romantic illusions. "Restricted" does not mean "banned"; it means
that Wiley want more money for their book in the US, so they don't want
their cheaper international edition to be sold there. I used to deal with
Wiley among other publishers; they are not the best of them. For one thing
they want authors of scientific papers published in their journals to pay
for all the reprints of their own papers - they won't send the first hundred
for free as other publishers do. Reprints are important in the world of
scientific research, so the authors have no choice but to hand over the
large sums of money demanded. With Wiley, as with so many other businesses,
it's all about the money - there's no ideology involved.

[Michael J. Schülke]

Post by Lesley Weston
Reprints are important in the world of
scientific research,

Are they still? I was getting the impression that -- with most articles
now available online -- their importance was rapidly fading.

Michael

[Lesley Weston]

Post by Michael J. Schülke

Post by Lesley Weston
Reprints are important in the world of
scientific research,

Are they still? I was getting the impression that -- with most articles
now available online -- their importance was rapidly fading.

People still ask other people to send them a reprint, which the other people
duly do, sometimes with a graceful little message and a signature. Somehow,
having it on shiny paper with the micrographs nice and clear is superior to
even the best photocopy or printout with images containing blurry details
that may or may not be the proof of the crux of their argument. You have to
have some kind of dead-tree version, or how are you going to mark the
significant bits in different-coloured highlighters so that no-one else can
read the paper?

Another point is that while most papers are indeed on line, you can read
many of them only if your University has a subscription to that journal. In
hard times (which seem to be permanent in most Universities), the library is
the first thing to be cut back, and journal subscriptions are the first
thing that the library ditches.